On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:19:27 +0200, "Mandi" <ma***@amon.com> wrote:

>In a previous thread I was advised that according to my problems, I may use
>a NATTED service as opposed to ROUTED one(thanks Mr.Chuck).
>Does anyone expand about this service a little. I'm interested especially
>regarding the following-
>1. What is the drawbacks of this service in comparison to routed service?
>2. Which kind of applications may not work properly under this
>service(peer2peer??)
>3. How can someone know if he has such a service?
>4. Are there any other "levels" of routing services apart from routed and
>natted?
>5. What is the share of this service in the United States?
>
>Thanks for any reference to my questions.
>
>Mandi

"Chuck" <n***@example.net> wrote in message
news:vlr1m2h1thadsb3508v53aesnn1dusav2g@4ax.com...
> On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:19:27 +0200, "Mandi" <ma***@amon.com> wrote:
>
> >In a previous thread I was advised that according to my problems, I may
use
> >a NATTED service as opposed to ROUTED one(thanks Mr.Chuck).
> >Does anyone expand about this service a little. I'm interested especially
> >regarding the following-
> >1. What is the drawbacks of this service in comparison to routed service?
> >2. Which kind of applications may not work properly under this
> >service(peer2peer??)
> >3. How can someone know if he has such a service?
> >4. Are there any other "levels" of routing services apart from routed and
> >natted?
> >5. What is the share of this service in the United States?
> >
> >Thanks for any reference to my questions.
> >
> >Mandi
>
> Mandi,
>
> NAT works fine, if all that you're doing is surfing the web.  When you
want to
> run any server activity, it sux.  IM, P2P, VPN - all require a visible
presence
> on the Internet.  NAT hides you, which is good when you WANT to be hidden,
not
> good when you DON'T.
>
> The advantage of NAT is that it's cheap and easy to provide.  If you have
a
> single IP address, you can provide NATted service to your neighbours
(assuming
> that you have enough bandwidth).  Providing a routed service requires
planning -
> you have to purchase a registered subnet, with enough addresses for your
> intended customer base.
>
> If you're lucky, your customers won't know that you're selling NATted
service.
> I have a bud in Thailand who looks to be going thru at least 2 NAT routers
> (neither of them are his) at times.
>
> The problem with NAT is the addressing makes it hard to run a server.  You
can
> setup NAT traversal, but it requires special service setup in your router,
and
> won't work for more than one computer for each service requiring special
> service.
>
> The simplest way to find out if you're accessing the Internet thru a NAT
router
> is to run an IP detection, like http://www.whatismyip.com/ .  Then run
ipconfig
> from your computer, or look at the IP address on the WAN side of your NAT
router
> (if you have one).  What is your outermost IP address?  Compare that to
the
> address detected by WhatIsMyIP.
>
> You can confirm your suspicions by using something like PingPlotter, which
gives
> you a trace between your computer and any public server.  If you see your
> service go thru any router with an IP address in any of the "private" IP
ranges,
> then you likely have NATted service.
>      10.0.0.0        -   10.255.255.255  (10/8 prefix)
>      172.16.0.0      -   172.31.255.255  (172.16/12 prefix)
>      192.168.0.0     -   192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
> <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html>
> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html
>

>
> Most ISPs in the developed countries run routed service, as they are
registered
> businesses with a reputation to keep, and lawyers to deal with.  You can
avoid
> address space planning by using NAT, but you still have bandwidth and
> reliability concerns.  In third world countries like Thailand, this won't
be a
> problem.  Between the possibilities, there could be a lot of questions.
>
> --
> Cheers,
> Chuck, MS-MVP [Windows - Networking]
> http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/
> Paranoia is not a problem, when it's a normal response from experience.
> My        email         is          AT         DOT
>    actual       address    pchuck       mvps        org.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 18:41:13 +0200, "Mandi" <ma***@beni.com> wrote:

>"Chuck" <n***@example.net> wrote in message
>news:vlr1m2h1thadsb3508v53aesnn1dusav2g@4ax.com...
>> On Sun, 19 Nov 2006 23:19:27 +0200, "Mandi" <ma***@amon.com> wrote:
>>
>> >In a previous thread I was advised that according to my problems, I may
>use
>> >a NATTED service as opposed to ROUTED one(thanks Mr.Chuck).
>> >Does anyone expand about this service a little. I'm interested especially
>> >regarding the following-
>> >1. What is the drawbacks of this service in comparison to routed service?
>> >2. Which kind of applications may not work properly under this
>> >service(peer2peer??)
>> >3. How can someone know if he has such a service?
>> >4. Are there any other "levels" of routing services apart from routed and
>> >natted?
>> >5. What is the share of this service in the United States?
>> >
>> >Thanks for any reference to my questions.
>> >
>> >Mandi
>>
>> Mandi,
>>
>> NAT works fine, if all that you're doing is surfing the web.  When you
>want to
>> run any server activity, it sux.  IM, P2P, VPN - all require a visible
>presence
>> on the Internet.  NAT hides you, which is good when you WANT to be hidden,
>not
>> good when you DON'T.
>>
>> The advantage of NAT is that it's cheap and easy to provide.  If you have
>a
>> single IP address, you can provide NATted service to your neighbours
>(assuming
>> that you have enough bandwidth).  Providing a routed service requires
>planning -
>> you have to purchase a registered subnet, with enough addresses for your
>> intended customer base.
>>
>> If you're lucky, your customers won't know that you're selling NATted
>service.
>> I have a bud in Thailand who looks to be going thru at least 2 NAT routers
>> (neither of them are his) at times.
>>
>> The problem with NAT is the addressing makes it hard to run a server.  You
>can
>> setup NAT traversal, but it requires special service setup in your router,
>and
>> won't work for more than one computer for each service requiring special
>> service.
>>
>> The simplest way to find out if you're accessing the Internet thru a NAT
>router
>> is to run an IP detection, like http://www.whatismyip.com/ .  Then run
>ipconfig
>> from your computer, or look at the IP address on the WAN side of your NAT
>router
>> (if you have one).  What is your outermost IP address?  Compare that to
>the
>> address detected by WhatIsMyIP.
>>
>> You can confirm your suspicions by using something like PingPlotter, which
>gives
>> you a trace between your computer and any public server.  If you see your
>> service go thru any router with an IP address in any of the "private" IP
>ranges,
>> then you likely have NATted service.
>>      10.0.0.0        -   10.255.255.255  (10/8 prefix)
>>      172.16.0.0      -   172.31.255.255  (172.16/12 prefix)
>>      192.168.0.0     -   192.168.255.255 (192.168/16 prefix)
>> <http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html>
>> http://www.faqs.org/rfcs/rfc1918.html
>>
><http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/09/diagnosing-network-problems-using.htm
>l>
>>
>http://nitecruzr.blogspot.com/2006/09/diagnosing-network-problems-using.html
>>
>> Most ISPs in the developed countries run routed service, as they are
>registered
>> businesses with a reputation to keep, and lawyers to deal with.  You can
>avoid
>> address space planning by using NAT, but you still have bandwidth and
>> reliability concerns.  In third world countries like Thailand, this won't
>be a
>> problem.  Between the possibilities, there could be a lot of questions.

>Thanks again Mr.Chuck,
>I have a very unique peer 2 peer SIP application that is based on Microsoft
>RTC , and basically supports chat and audio/video between the 2 parties. The
>advantage over a standard Messenger application is that no login is
>required - just the ip address of the other party.
>This application works fine in a private LAN and also behind a private UPNP
>NAT Router if the caller knows (and of course uses) the external
>address/port router mapping of the other side (both,of course, under the
>same ISP).
>Would it be right to say that this application should work fine also between
>2 parties (none of them is behind a private NAT) across the Internet , with
>any 2 distinct ISP's ?