Wireless WAN to cbaled LAN?

microsoft.public.windows.networking.wireless

18 Dec 2006 5:16 PM

Andy B

Parents live in an area (UK) where their broadband access is Wireless. They
would like to extend this to provide a small network internally, either
wired or wireless. In my mind I imagine a modem/router similar to those used
with ADSL, but with a wireless connection on the WAN side. Is this possible?

If not a simple box, then any hints about potential solutions and what's
involved would be welcome as well as any potential gotchas. Any
recommendation about hardware. Easy config would be a bonus, as they're not
too close and most of my support would be by phone.

Apologies if this is a FAQ, maybe could someone point to an answer please.

Thanks Andy B

18 Dec 2006 6:26 PM

David Hettel

Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info on
their hardware.

Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in a
PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it is
192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it connect to a
network card? Does it require special software on the PC it is connected to?

--
David Hettel

Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for everyone
to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me in
E-mail or news groups.

Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
http://mvp.support.microsoft.com

DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of, or
inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and confers
no rights.

Show quoteHide quote

"Andy B" <andyandy.b@invalid.invalid> wrote in message
news:4586c9d0$1_1@glkas0286.greenlnk.net...
> Parents live in an area (UK) where their broadband access is Wireless.
> They would like to extend this to provide a small network internally,
> either wired or wireless. In my mind I imagine a modem/router similar to
> those used with ADSL, but with a wireless connection on the WAN side. Is
> this possible?
>
> If not a simple box, then any hints about potential solutions and what's
> involved would be welcome as well as any potential gotchas. Any
> recommendation about hardware. Easy config would be a bonus, as they're
> not too close and most of my support would be by phone.
>
> Apologies if this is a FAQ, maybe could someone point to an answer please.
>
> Thanks Andy B
>

18 Dec 2006 9:33 PM

Andy B

David Hettel wrote:

> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info on
> their hardware.
>
> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in
> a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it
> is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it connect
> to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC it is
> connected to?
>
[from home]

Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
    A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
    I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still
matters I'll check)
    There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
connection - inc. processes and username and password.
Andy B

19 Dec 2006 12:06 AM

Lem

Andy B wrote:
Show quoteHide quote

> David Hettel wrote:
>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info
>> on their hardware.
>>
>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card
>> in a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If
>> it is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it
>> connect to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC
>> it is connected to?
>>
> [from home]
> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>     A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>     I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still
> matters I'll check)
>     There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
> Andy B

Actually, there's some confusion in your description. These days,
"wireless" has become imprecise. "A wifi enabled laptop, connecting as
if to a home network," is what I think most people -- especially those
posting in this ng -- mean when they talk about "wireless" connections.

OTOH, that's NOT typically how people get "broadband access." Broadband
access usually means a connection to a DSL line, a cable line, or
perhaps a T1 or ISDN or the like.

You can get broadband access via the cell phone network, which is, thus,
technically "wireless." Here in the US Cingular, Sprint, and Verizon
for example, have such services. Except for new laptops, which may have
this capability built in, you connect to these services with a PCMCIA
card that looks like a wifi adapter, but is not.

So, the answer to your question is different depending on how they
really get Internet access. The easiest way to answer this question is
to ask another few questions: do they pay for Internet access, and if
so, to who? And if they pay, what is the service called? I'm not
familiar with service providers in the UK or the various services they
provide. If you're not, and if no one else chimes in, you'll have to do
a little web research. If you do check their IP address and it is
192.168.x.y, they most likely are connecting to a wifi network, and are
not getting "wireless broadband access" -- at least in the sense that
there is someone else's router in between your parents' computer and the
Internet Service Provider

If they don't pay, odds are that they are connecting to a wifi network
that perhaps is supplied by the management of their building, a local
community service, or the like (or simply an unsuspecting neighbor). In
this case, other devices could simply connect to the same network with
standard wifi adapters. Or, if it doesn't conflict with the terms of
service of whoever is providing the wifi signal, you cuold connect
something like a client bridge. A Linksys WRT54G/GS router, preferably
v4 or earlier, can be flashed with 3rd party firmware such as dd-wrt and
configured such that you end up with a device that connects wirelessly
to a standard wifi router and provides 4 Ethernet ports for use in an
"internal network."

If they really get wireless broadband (EV-DO, for example), they could
use Internet Connection Sharing on the computer with the wireless modem,
but this would require that that computer be on anytime the Internet
access by any other device is desired. Or, they could get a router that
connects to the wireless broadband (which is what you originally asked
about). One such is the Kyocera KR-1, which originally listed for over
US$200, but may be available for less. This is a year-old story, I
don't know what the more recent info might be:
http://www.wifinetnews.com/archives/006065.html

Not all "cellphone" type wireless access is EVDO, however. So you have
to know exactly what they have before you can start looking for equipment.

--
Lem MS MVP -- Networking

To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

19 Dec 2006 10:26 AM

Andy B

Thanks for the detailed responses. I can add some more detail, based on my
assumptions, potentially flawed, as ever: I'll check my assumptions when I
next speak with them. I don't believe it's a cellphone connection: they can
take their laptop, as-is, to my brothers house, and setup a connection to
his in-house Wi-fi: his house system would certainly use 192.168.x.y. The
service is indeed provided by the management company who have set up what
sounds like a community service, but charge a fee per connection. The
service sounds like a glorified version of what you'd have in a house - more
routers, but same principal.

If my assumptions are correct it sounds as if a Client bridge is the
terminology I need to use - the words here:
http://www.dvrplayground.com/article/12254/ seem to describe the creation of
what I think I need. In which case I need to start looking for a Linksys
WRT54G router or similar.
Any hints and tips about what features to look for?
For instance why would the Linksys box need to be v4 or earlier and how
would I tell if buying on the internet? The link above suggests that there
is a Zyxel box which doesn't need flashing - Can't seem to find it for sale
over here, is there an updated version? any issues with this?
Thanks
Andy

Show quoteHide quote

"Lem" <lem***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e3tNSGwIHHA.3312@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Andy B wrote:
>> David Hettel wrote:
>>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info on
>>> their hardware.
>>>
>>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in
>>> a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it
>>> is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it connect
>>> to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC it is
>>> connected to?
>>>
>> [from home]
>> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>>     A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>>     I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still
>> matters I'll check)
>>     There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
>> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
>> Andy B
>
> Actually, there's some confusion in your description. These days,
> "wireless" has become imprecise. "A wifi enabled laptop, connecting as if
> to a home network," is what I think most people -- especially those
> posting in this ng -- mean when they talk about "wireless" connections.
>
> OTOH, that's NOT typically how people get "broadband access." Broadband
> access usually means a connection to a DSL line, a cable line, or perhaps
> a T1 or ISDN or the like.
>
> You can get broadband access via the cell phone network, which is, thus,
> technically "wireless." Here in the US Cingular, Sprint, and Verizon for
> example, have such services. Except for new laptops, which may have this
> capability built in, you connect to these services with a PCMCIA card that
> looks like a wifi adapter, but is not.
>
> So, the answer to your question is different depending on how they really
> get Internet access. The easiest way to answer this question is to ask
> another few questions: do they pay for Internet access, and if so, to
> who? And if they pay, what is the service called? I'm not familiar with
> service providers in the UK or the various services they provide. If
> you're not, and if no one else chimes in, you'll have to do a little web
> research. If you do check their IP address and it is 192.168.x.y, they
> most likely are connecting to a wifi network, and are not getting
> "wireless broadband access" -- at least in the sense that there is someone
> else's router in between your parents' computer and the Internet Service
> Provider
>
> If they don't pay, odds are that they are connecting to a wifi network
> that perhaps is supplied by the management of their building, a local
> community service, or the like (or simply an unsuspecting neighbor). In
> this case, other devices could simply connect to the same network with
> standard wifi adapters. Or, if it doesn't conflict with the terms of
> service of whoever is providing the wifi signal, you cuold connect
> something like a client bridge. A Linksys WRT54G/GS router, preferably v4
> or earlier, can be flashed with 3rd party firmware such as dd-wrt and
> configured such that you end up with a device that connects wirelessly to
> a standard wifi router and provides 4 Ethernet ports for use in an
> "internal network."
>
> If they really get wireless broadband (EV-DO, for example), they could use
> Internet Connection Sharing on the computer with the wireless modem, but
> this would require that that computer be on anytime the Internet access by
> any other device is desired. Or, they could get a router that connects to
> the wireless broadband (which is what you originally asked about). One
> such is the Kyocera KR-1, which originally listed for over US$200, but may
> be available for less. This is a year-old story, I don't know what the
> more recent info might be: http://www.wifinetnews.com/archives/006065.html
>
> Not all "cellphone" type wireless access is EVDO, however. So you have to
> know exactly what they have before you can start looking for equipment.
>
>
> --
> Lem   MS MVP -- Networking
>
> To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

19 Dec 2006 4:58 PM

Lem

Andy B wrote:
Show quoteHide quote

> Thanks for the detailed responses. I can add some more detail, based on my
> assumptions, potentially flawed, as ever: I'll check my assumptions when I
> next speak with them. I don't believe it's a cellphone connection: they can
> take their laptop, as-is, to my brothers house, and setup a connection to
> his in-house Wi-fi: his house system would certainly use 192.168.x.y. The
> service is indeed provided by the management company who have set up what
> sounds like a community service, but charge a fee per connection. The
> service sounds like a glorified version of what you'd have in a house - more
> routers, but same principal.
>
> If my assumptions are correct it sounds as if a Client bridge is the
> terminology I need to use - the words here:
> http://www.dvrplayground.com/article/12254/ seem to describe the creation of
> what I think I need. In which case I need to start looking for a Linksys
> WRT54G router or similar.
> Any hints and tips about what features to look for?
> For instance why would the Linksys box need to be v4 or earlier and how
> would I tell if buying on the internet? The link above suggests that there
> is a Zyxel box which doesn't need flashing - Can't seem to find it for sale
> over here, is there an updated version? any issues with this?
> Thanks
> Andy
>
> "Lem" <lem***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:e3tNSGwIHHA.3312@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Andy B wrote:
>>> David Hettel wrote:
>>>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info on
>>>> their hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in
>>>> a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it
>>>> is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it connect
>>>> to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC it is
>>>> connected to?
>>>>
>>> [from home]
>>> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>>>     A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>>>     I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still
>>> matters I'll check)
>>>     There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
>>> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
>>> Andy B
>> Actually, there's some confusion in your description. These days,
>> "wireless" has become imprecise. "A wifi enabled laptop, connecting as if
>> to a home network," is what I think most people -- especially those
>> posting in this ng -- mean when they talk about "wireless" connections.
>>
>> OTOH, that's NOT typically how people get "broadband access." Broadband
>> access usually means a connection to a DSL line, a cable line, or perhaps
>> a T1 or ISDN or the like.
>>
>> You can get broadband access via the cell phone network, which is, thus,
>> technically "wireless." Here in the US Cingular, Sprint, and Verizon for
>> example, have such services. Except for new laptops, which may have this
>> capability built in, you connect to these services with a PCMCIA card that
>> looks like a wifi adapter, but is not.
>>
>> So, the answer to your question is different depending on how they really
>> get Internet access. The easiest way to answer this question is to ask
>> another few questions: do they pay for Internet access, and if so, to
>> who? And if they pay, what is the service called? I'm not familiar with
>> service providers in the UK or the various services they provide. If
>> you're not, and if no one else chimes in, you'll have to do a little web
>> research. If you do check their IP address and it is 192.168.x.y, they
>> most likely are connecting to a wifi network, and are not getting
>> "wireless broadband access" -- at least in the sense that there is someone
>> else's router in between your parents' computer and the Internet Service
>> Provider
>>
>> If they don't pay, odds are that they are connecting to a wifi network
>> that perhaps is supplied by the management of their building, a local
>> community service, or the like (or simply an unsuspecting neighbor). In
>> this case, other devices could simply connect to the same network with
>> standard wifi adapters. Or, if it doesn't conflict with the terms of
>> service of whoever is providing the wifi signal, you cuold connect
>> something like a client bridge. A Linksys WRT54G/GS router, preferably v4
>> or earlier, can be flashed with 3rd party firmware such as dd-wrt and
>> configured such that you end up with a device that connects wirelessly to
>> a standard wifi router and provides 4 Ethernet ports for use in an
>> "internal network."
>>
>> If they really get wireless broadband (EV-DO, for example), they could use
>> Internet Connection Sharing on the computer with the wireless modem, but
>> this would require that that computer be on anytime the Internet access by
>> any other device is desired. Or, they could get a router that connects to
>> the wireless broadband (which is what you originally asked about). One
>> such is the Kyocera KR-1, which originally listed for over US$200, but may
>> be available for less. This is a year-old story, I don't know what the
>> more recent info might be: http://www.wifinetnews.com/archives/006065.html
>>
>> Not all "cellphone" type wireless access is EVDO, however. So you have to
>> know exactly what they have before you can start looking for equipment.
>>
>>
>> --
>> Lem   MS MVP -- Networking
>>
>> To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
>> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer
>
>

I'll confine the ethical/moral/legal comment to one sentence: If the
management company that provides the wireless service charges a fee per
connection, you and your parents need to decide whether enabling more
than one connection by using a router, while paying for only one, is
something they want or ought to do.

If you go to http://www.ezlan.net/ and take a look at some of the info
there, you'll get an idea of what you need to make a wireless bridge.

Although many SOHO wireless routers (what Jack at ezlan refers to as
"entry level" routers) have the hardware capability to perform
networking functions other than simple routing, for marketing reasons,
the manufactures often don't make these capabilities available. Several
early models of these routers, including the Linksys WRT54G series, used
firmware that was based on Linux. This spawned a rather large community
that developed "alternative" or "third-party" firmware that enabled
end users to access all of the hardware capabilities of the routers.

http://www.linksysinfo.org/ has a great deal of information about
Linksys routers in general, and at
http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47282 compares 4
different firmware offerings and includes links to the developers'
sites. There are more than 4, however --
http://www.linksysinfo.org/portal/forums/archive/index.php/t-41001.html
One of the more popular these days is dd-wrt.

The reason for suggesting finding a WRT54G v4 or earlier is that
starting with v5, Linksys changed from Linux-based firmware to firmware
that used a proprietary OS. They cut the size of the RAM as well.
Thus, initially, third-party firmware was not available for versions 5
and newer. The gory details of this -- as of May 2004 -- are at
http://www.linksysinfo.org/forums/showthread.php?t=47124 As you might
suspect, however, this state of affairs did not last, and now at least
some third-party firmware is available for more recent models of the
Linksys routers, as well as for other brands. This link from the dd-wrt
wiki lists the hardware that dd-wrt firmware will work on:
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Supported_Devices

If you want to go this route, the Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 might be your best
bet -- it has a built-in RF amplifier that improves the range.

--
Lem MS MVP -- Networking

To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer

19 Dec 2006 6:12 AM

David Hettel

Hi Andy;
Yes the IP address may make a difference if the wireless unit is using
192.168.0.xxx space it will prevent you from using ICS, one simple way of
sharing such a connection. If you wish to add wireless, the best way is
adding a wireless router IMHO. To do that the wireless router must be able
to emulate the software on the PC, so if the security is very simply "being
plugged in to the network" it's not a problem (and not likely either), if
it's a simple user name and password not a problem generally, if it's PPPoE
it's not a problem, if it's something else then it probably is. Some
services require a certain browser as an example configured in a certain
way. I'm based in the USA, I know and have help set up a few BT home
networks to know it not always the same as here in the USA. Even "BT" means
something different (BlueTooth) to me than to you.

I'm sure you have a Wireless connection to a local BT transmitter somewhere
in the neighborhood. That's not the same as our Wi-Fi. It's easy for someone
based here in the USA to make assumptions that aren't valid for your
parents. Look at Lem's answer to you on Broadband and wireless, I believe
he's saying your description is wrong. I don't think you're talking about a
cellphone connection. But either an external wireless box, perhaps with an
outside antenna, or an internal card with some type of external antenna,
either within your parents house or external to the house. So the hardware
that's actually being used matters here. As well as our understanding of the
hardware.

Show quoteHide quote

"Andy B" <shopp***@ouvip.com.nospam> wrote in message
news:12oe28g9pi93ecc@corp.supernews.com...
> David Hettel wrote:
>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info on
>> their hardware.
>>
>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in a
>> PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it is
>> 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it connect to
>> a network card? Does it require special software on the PC it is
>> connected to?
>>
> [from home]
> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
> A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
> I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still matters
> I'll check)
> There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
> Andy B

19 Dec 2006 12:20 PM

David Hettel

Well scratch my idea then, it's not what I was thinking of. If it is indeed
as you think all you'll need is a Wireless router that you can put into
"Client mode". Things to look for, the ability to clone the MAC address of
their wireless card MAC address. The management company may have their
account locked to the MAC address of their wireless card, if they can logon
with their password and user name using another Wi-Fi computer this doesn't
apply. All you would need is a wireless router that will do a generic
"client" mode, not all will.

Show quoteHide quote

"David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:Ocx1%23SzIHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
> Hi Andy;
> Yes the IP address may make a difference if the wireless unit is using
> 192.168.0.xxx space it will prevent you from using ICS, one simple way of
> sharing such a connection. If you wish to add wireless, the best way is
> adding a wireless router IMHO. To do that the wireless router must be able
> to emulate the software on the PC, so if the security is very simply
> "being plugged in to the network" it's not a problem (and not likely
> either), if it's a simple user name and password not a problem generally,
> if it's PPPoE it's not a problem, if it's something else then it probably
> is. Some services require a certain browser as an example configured in a
> certain way. I'm based in the USA, I know and have help set up a few BT
> home networks to know it not always the same as here in the USA. Even "BT"
> means something different (BlueTooth) to me than to you.
>
> I'm sure you have a Wireless connection to a local BT transmitter
> somewhere in the neighborhood. That's not the same as our Wi-Fi. It's easy
> for someone based here in the USA to make assumptions that aren't valid
> for your parents. Look at Lem's answer to you on Broadband and wireless, I
> believe he's saying your description is wrong. I don't think you're
> talking about a cellphone connection. But either an external wireless box,
> perhaps with an outside antenna, or an internal card with some type of
> external antenna, either within your parents house or external to the
> house. So the hardware that's actually being used matters here. As well as
> our understanding of the hardware.
>
> --
> David Hettel
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
> everyone
> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
> in
> E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
> or
> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
> confers
> no rights.
>
>
>
> "Andy B" <shopp***@ouvip.com.nospam> wrote in message
> news:12oe28g9pi93ecc@corp.supernews.com...
>> David Hettel wrote:
>>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info on
>>> their hardware.
>>>
>>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in
>>> a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it
>>> is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it connect
>>> to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC it is
>>> connected to?
>>>
>> [from home]
>> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>> A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>> I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still matters
>> I'll check)
>> There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
>> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
>> Andy B
>

19 Dec 2006 5:17 PM

Jack (MVP-Networking).

Hi
It is even more tricky.
Wireless Routers in client mode bypasses the Router part, you need routing
in order to sgare the connection.
So actually they need two Wireless Routers (at least one of them has to do
Client mode), or a Game Box adapter, and a regular Wireless Router. (
http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html ).
The Game adaptor (or Wireless Router in Client Mode) has to be plugged into
the second Wireless Router WAN port.
Doing so the first unit receives the Signal and the second unit acts has the
local Router/Access Point.
The rest of the configuration is as described by David above.
Jack (MVP-Networking).

Show quoteHide quote

"David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:%23Izojg2IHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Well scratch my idea then, it's not what I was thinking of. If it is
> indeed as you think all you'll need is a Wireless router that you can put
> into "Client mode". Things to look for, the ability to clone the MAC
> address of their wireless card MAC address. The management company may
> have their account locked to the MAC address of their wireless card, if
> they can logon with their password and user name using another Wi-Fi
> computer this doesn't apply. All you would need is a wireless router that
> will do a generic "client" mode, not all will.
>
> --
> David Hettel
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
> everyone
> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
> in
> E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
> or
> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
> confers
> no rights.
>
>
>
> "David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:Ocx1%23SzIHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>> Hi Andy;
>> Yes the IP address may make a difference if the wireless unit is using
>> 192.168.0.xxx space it will prevent you from using ICS, one simple way of
>> sharing such a connection. If you wish to add wireless, the best way is
>> adding a wireless router IMHO. To do that the wireless router must be
>> able to emulate the software on the PC, so if the security is very simply
>> "being plugged in to the network" it's not a problem (and not likely
>> either), if it's a simple user name and password not a problem generally,
>> if it's PPPoE it's not a problem, if it's something else then it probably
>> is. Some services require a certain browser as an example configured in a
>> certain way. I'm based in the USA, I know and have help set up a few BT
>> home networks to know it not always the same as here in the USA. Even
>> "BT" means something different (BlueTooth) to me than to you.
>>
>> I'm sure you have a Wireless connection to a local BT transmitter
>> somewhere in the neighborhood. That's not the same as our Wi-Fi. It's
>> easy for someone based here in the USA to make assumptions that aren't
>> valid for your parents. Look at Lem's answer to you on Broadband and
>> wireless, I believe he's saying your description is wrong. I don't think
>> you're talking about a cellphone connection. But either an external
>> wireless box, perhaps with an outside antenna, or an internal card with
>> some type of external antenna, either within your parents house or
>> external to the house. So the hardware that's actually being used matters
>> here. As well as our understanding of the hardware.
>>
>> --
>> David Hettel
>>
>> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
>> everyone
>> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
>> in
>> E-mail or news groups.
>>
>> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>>
>> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any
>> kind,
>> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy,
>> reliability
>> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
>> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
>> or
>> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
>> confers
>> no rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> "Andy B" <shopp***@ouvip.com.nospam> wrote in message
>> news:12oe28g9pi93ecc@corp.supernews.com...
>>> David Hettel wrote:
>>>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info
>>>> on their hardware.
>>>>
>>>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card in
>>>> a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If it
>>>> is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it
>>>> connect to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC
>>>> it is connected to?
>>>>
>>> [from home]
>>> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>>> A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>>> I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still matters
>>> I'll check)
>>> There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
>>> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
>>> Andy B
>>
>

19 Dec 2006 6:13 PM

David Hettel

My understanding was some of the aftermarket firmware for some of the
Linksys routers would allow the Linksys to basically do both. I've never
used a wireless router in that mode myself. So no first hand knowledge on
that. I think it's reasonable to assume they would use MAC address
filtering. If so, I'm not at all sure if one could connect with a "cloned"
MAC address, while having the same MAC address active and trying to connect
locally?

I was thinking the original question was about (last mile wireless
high-speed) wireless to a wired network where they would simply use a
switch.

Show quoteHide quote

"Jack (MVP-Networking)." <J***@discussiongroup.com> wrote in message
news:uSEUwF5IHHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> Hi
> It is even more tricky.
> Wireless Routers in client mode bypasses the Router part, you need routing
> in order to sgare the connection.
> So actually they need two Wireless Routers (at least one of them has to do
> Client mode), or a Game Box adapter, and a regular Wireless Router. (
> http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html ).
> The Game adaptor (or Wireless Router in Client Mode) has to be plugged
> into the second Wireless Router WAN port.
> Doing so the first unit receives the Signal and the second unit acts has
> the local Router/Access Point.
> The rest of the configuration is as described by David above.
> Jack (MVP-Networking).
>
>
> "David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:%23Izojg2IHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Well scratch my idea then, it's not what I was thinking of. If it is
>> indeed as you think all you'll need is a Wireless router that you can put
>> into "Client mode". Things to look for, the ability to clone the MAC
>> address of their wireless card MAC address. The management company may
>> have their account locked to the MAC address of their wireless card, if
>> they can logon with their password and user name using another Wi-Fi
>> computer this doesn't apply. All you would need is a wireless router that
>> will do a generic "client" mode, not all will.
>>
>> --
>> David Hettel
>>
>> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
>> everyone
>> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
>> in
>> E-mail or news groups.
>>
>> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>>
>> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any
>> kind,
>> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy,
>> reliability
>> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
>> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
>> or
>> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
>> confers
>> no rights.
>>
>>
>>
>> "David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:Ocx1%23SzIHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>> Hi Andy;
>>> Yes the IP address may make a difference if the wireless unit is using
>>> 192.168.0.xxx space it will prevent you from using ICS, one simple way
>>> of sharing such a connection. If you wish to add wireless, the best way
>>> is adding a wireless router IMHO. To do that the wireless router must be
>>> able to emulate the software on the PC, so if the security is very
>>> simply "being plugged in to the network" it's not a problem (and not
>>> likely either), if it's a simple user name and password not a problem
>>> generally, if it's PPPoE it's not a problem, if it's something else then
>>> it probably is. Some services require a certain browser as an example
>>> configured in a certain way. I'm based in the USA, I know and have help
>>> set up a few BT home networks to know it not always the same as here in
>>> the USA. Even "BT" means something different (BlueTooth) to me than to
>>> you.
>>>
>>> I'm sure you have a Wireless connection to a local BT transmitter
>>> somewhere in the neighborhood. That's not the same as our Wi-Fi. It's
>>> easy for someone based here in the USA to make assumptions that aren't
>>> valid for your parents. Look at Lem's answer to you on Broadband and
>>> wireless, I believe he's saying your description is wrong. I don't think
>>> you're talking about a cellphone connection. But either an external
>>> wireless box, perhaps with an outside antenna, or an internal card with
>>> some type of external antenna, either within your parents house or
>>> external to the house. So the hardware that's actually being used
>>> matters here. As well as our understanding of the hardware.
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Hettel
>>>
>>> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
>>> everyone
>>> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to
>>> me in
>>> E-mail or news groups.
>>>
>>> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
>>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any
>>> kind,
>>> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy,
>>> reliability
>>> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
>>> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
>>> or
>>> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
>>> confers
>>> no rights.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "Andy B" <shopp***@ouvip.com.nospam> wrote in message
>>> news:12oe28g9pi93ecc@corp.supernews.com...
>>>> David Hettel wrote:
>>>>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info
>>>>> on their hardware.
>>>>>
>>>>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card
>>>>> in a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it? If
>>>>> it is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does it
>>>>> connect to a network card? Does it require special software on the PC
>>>>> it is connected to?
>>>>>
>>>> [from home]
>>>> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>>>> A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>>>> I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still
>>>> matters I'll check)
>>>> There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
>>>> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
>>>> Andy B
>>>
>>
>
>

19 Dec 2006 6:51 PM

Jack (MVP-Networking).

Hi
The Linksys without 3rd party firmware can not do Client Mode (or WDS), the
"Flashing" makes it capable for both.
However to the one input signal need to be Route. The firmware can not do
any thing about it, since the Routing circuits are before the Access Point,
and Switch parts.
Jack (MVP-Networking).

Show quoteHide quote

"David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:e6zVyl5IHHA.4848@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
> My understanding was some of the aftermarket firmware for some of the
> Linksys routers would allow the Linksys to basically do both. I've never
> used a wireless router in that mode myself. So no first hand knowledge on
> that. I think it's reasonable to assume they would use MAC address
> filtering. If so, I'm not at all sure if one could connect with a "cloned"
> MAC address, while having the same MAC address active and trying to
> connect locally?
>
> I was thinking the original question was about (last mile wireless
> high-speed) wireless to a wired network where they would simply use a
> switch.
>
> --
> David Hettel
>
> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
> everyone
> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to me
> in
> E-mail or news groups.
>
> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>
> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any kind,
> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy, reliability
> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
> or
> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
> confers
> no rights.
>
>
>
> "Jack (MVP-Networking)." <J***@discussiongroup.com> wrote in message
> news:uSEUwF5IHHA.1280@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>> Hi
>> It is even more tricky.
>> Wireless Routers in client mode bypasses the Router part, you need
>> routing in order to sgare the connection.
>> So actually they need two Wireless Routers (at least one of them has to
>> do Client mode), or a Game Box adapter, and a regular Wireless Router.
>> ( http://www.ezlan.net/Wireless_Modes.html ).
>> The Game adaptor (or Wireless Router in Client Mode) has to be plugged
>> into the second Wireless Router WAN port.
>> Doing so the first unit receives the Signal and the second unit acts has
>> the local Router/Access Point.
>> The rest of the configuration is as described by David above.
>> Jack (MVP-Networking).
>>
>>
>> "David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> news:%23Izojg2IHHA.960@TK2MSFTNGP04.phx.gbl...
>>> Well scratch my idea then, it's not what I was thinking of. If it is
>>> indeed as you think all you'll need is a Wireless router that you can
>>> put into "Client mode". Things to look for, the ability to clone the MAC
>>> address of their wireless card MAC address. The management company may
>>> have their account locked to the MAC address of their wireless card, if
>>> they can logon with their password and user name using another Wi-Fi
>>> computer this doesn't apply. All you would need is a wireless router
>>> that will do a generic "client" mode, not all will.
>>>
>>> --
>>> David Hettel
>>>
>>> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
>>> everyone
>>> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to
>>> me in
>>> E-mail or news groups.
>>>
>>> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
>>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>>>
>>> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any
>>> kind,
>>> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy,
>>> reliability
>>> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
>>> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use of,
>>> or
>>> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
>>> confers
>>> no rights.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> "David Hettel" <dah***@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>>> news:Ocx1%23SzIHHA.4376@TK2MSFTNGP03.phx.gbl...
>>>> Hi Andy;
>>>> Yes the IP address may make a difference if the wireless unit is using
>>>> 192.168.0.xxx space it will prevent you from using ICS, one simple way
>>>> of sharing such a connection. If you wish to add wireless, the best way
>>>> is adding a wireless router IMHO. To do that the wireless router must
>>>> be able to emulate the software on the PC, so if the security is very
>>>> simply "being plugged in to the network" it's not a problem (and not
>>>> likely either), if it's a simple user name and password not a problem
>>>> generally, if it's PPPoE it's not a problem, if it's something else
>>>> then it probably is. Some services require a certain browser as an
>>>> example configured in a certain way. I'm based in the USA, I know and
>>>> have help set up a few BT home networks to know it not always the same
>>>> as here in the USA. Even "BT" means something different (BlueTooth) to
>>>> me than to you.
>>>>
>>>> I'm sure you have a Wireless connection to a local BT transmitter
>>>> somewhere in the neighborhood. That's not the same as our Wi-Fi. It's
>>>> easy for someone based here in the USA to make assumptions that aren't
>>>> valid for your parents. Look at Lem's answer to you on Broadband and
>>>> wireless, I believe he's saying your description is wrong. I don't
>>>> think you're talking about a cellphone connection. But either an
>>>> external wireless box, perhaps with an outside antenna, or an internal
>>>> card with some type of external antenna, either within your parents
>>>> house or external to the house. So the hardware that's actually being
>>>> used matters here. As well as our understanding of the hardware.
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> David Hettel
>>>>
>>>> Please post any reply as a follow-up message in the news group for
>>>> everyone
>>>> to see. I'm sorry, but I don't answer questions addressed directly to
>>>> me in
>>>> E-mail or news groups.
>>>>
>>>> Microsoft Most Valuable Professional Program
>>>> http://mvp.support.microsoft.com
>>>>
>>>> DISCLAIMER: This posting is provided "AS IS" with no warranty of any
>>>> kind,
>>>> either expressed or implied, made in relation to the accuracy,
>>>> reliability
>>>> or content of this post. The author shall not be liable for any direct,
>>>> indirect, incidental or consequential damages arising out of the use
>>>> of, or
>>>> inability to use, information or opinions expressed in this post and
>>>> confers
>>>> no rights.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> "Andy B" <shopp***@ouvip.com.nospam> wrote in message
>>>> news:12oe28g9pi93ecc@corp.supernews.com...
>>>>> David Hettel wrote:
>>>>>> Well to get any meaningful answer you need to post more detailed info
>>>>>> on their hardware.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Is it an external box? Or is an external antenna connected to a card
>>>>>> in a PC? What IP address is assign to the computer connected to it?
>>>>>> If it is 192.168.0.xxx that would limit your possible options. Does
>>>>>> it connect to a network card? Does it require special software on the
>>>>>> PC it is connected to?
>>>>>>
>>>>> [from home]
>>>>> Thanks for the response - The Current arrangement are as below:
>>>>> A WiFi enabled laptop - connecting as if to a home network.
>>>>> I imagine it would be a 192.168.x.y type IP address (if it still
>>>>> matters I'll check)
>>>>> There is software on the main PC but I gather it just makes the
>>>>> connection - inc. processes and username and password.
>>>>> Andy B
>>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>

19 Dec 2006 9:40 PM

Lem

David Hettel wrote:

> My understanding was some of the aftermarket firmware for some of the
> Linksys routers would allow the Linksys to basically do both. I've never
> used a wireless router in that mode myself. So no first hand knowledge
> on that. I think it's reasonable to assume they would use MAC address
> filtering. If so, I'm not at all sure if one could connect with a
> "cloned" MAC address, while having the same MAC address active and
> trying to connect locally?
>
> I was thinking the original question was about (last mile wireless
> high-speed) wireless to a wired network where they would simply use a
> switch.
>

DD-WRT v23sp2 (the latest non-beta version) enables a variety of
different modes of "bridging" or connecting things wirelessly. I don't
claim to understand all of them thoroughly. If you're interested, see
the entries for "Client mode wireless," "WDS linked router network,"
"WDS Point to Point (P2P)," and "Wireless Bridge" at
http://www.dd-wrt.com/wiki/index.php/Configuration_HOWTOs. Note that
these entries describe "how to" configure a dd-wrt router to achieve a
particular mode of operation. They don't tell you how things will work
in that mode. For that, you have to do a little more research.

For example, in some "WDS" modes (the one which is available in stock
Buffalo WHR-HP-G54 routers, for example) the two routers ONLY talk to
each other, not to any "wireless stations" (e.g., your wireless laptop).

Several of these modes require special setups at both ends of the link,
and for that reason, could not be used in your parents' situation.

I can tell you from personal experience that a Linksys WRT54G v3 with
dd-wrt v23sp2, configured to "wireless bridge" mode, can connect to a
stock Linksys WRT54G (with WPA-AES enabled) and you can then connect a
non-wireless Ethernet device to one of the LAN ports on the dd-wrt
enabled router. There is some discussion about whether you can actually
use more than one of the LAN ports simultaneously; I intend to do so,
but haven't got around to trying that yet. In "wireless client" mode,
there is supposed to be no issue about using all 4 of the LAN ports on
the dd-wrt router.

--
Lem MS MVP -- Networking

To the moon and back with 64 Kbits of RAM and 512 Kbits of ROM.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apollo_Guidance_Computer